EFnet #spokane, April 27, 2001. Times are PDT.
[03:55] <BeGodlike> http://paranormal.about.com/science/paranormal/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FResearchTriangle%2FThinktank%2F8863%2FHEffect1.html
[03:57] <BeGodlike> http://paranormal.about.com/science/paranormal/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FResearchTriangle%2FThinktank%2F8863%2Fmain.html
[03:57] <BeGodlike> crazy shit
[03:59] <Mr2001> s/crazy/bull
[04:01] <BeGodlike> ?
[04:02] <Mr2001> http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=47929
[04:06] <BeGodlike> http://paranormal.about.com/science/paranormal/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.debshome.com%2FArtificial_Phenomena.html
[04:06] <BeGodlike> look @ the pictures at the bottom of the page, might want to read it also
[04:08] <Mr2001> uh..
[04:09] <Mr2001> "The stories of people using portals, or holes which open up in the air, usually say a Native American flute can be used so the trigger energy is very low. If Bigfoot and other types of transparent animals use or produce a portal effect to disappear them it reinforces the low energy aspect. "
[04:09] <Mr2001> "What I find even more interesting is the work of David Hamel. He is an experiencer who was given a design for a craft by ETs "
[04:10] <Mr2001> you'd think that if this wasn't a steaming load of bullshit, it would be mentioned somewhere besides ufo fan pages.
[04:10] <BeGodlike> are we still talking about the Hutchison machine/effect
[04:11] <Mr2001> this is from that link you just pasted.
[04:11] <BeGodlike> thats obviosly not hte part i read
[04:12] <BeGodlike> i've read about 5-8 articles now saying people witnessed, and still have on video of the machine doing its work
[04:12] <BeGodlike> plus those pictures
[04:13] <Mr2001> all from ufo or "free energy" sites.
[04:13] <BeGodlike> and the guy selling hte video
[04:13] <BeGodlike> of it
[04:13] <Mr2001> the bigfoot stuff is in the second paragraph under "A description of the Hutchinson device".
[04:14] <BeGodlike> Richard Hull implicates invisibiility of Hutchison Effect. See "Electrice Spacecraft Journal" back issues.
[04:14] <BeGodlike> Ken Shoulders duplicates heating of metals without heat on small level written up in "New Energy News" by Hal Fox.
[04:14] <BeGodlike> Lockhead and Martin, Spentworks, duplicate the Hutchison Effect see TLC Broadcast June 28, 2000.
[04:15] <BeGodlike> is that bs too?
[04:15] <Mr2001> electric spacecraft journal and new energy news are crackpot rags.
[04:15] <Mr2001> tlc is not a news channel.
[04:15] <BeGodlike> and lockhead martin is full of shit too aren't they
[04:15] <BeGodlike> your in total denial lol
[04:15] <Mr2001> uh, ok.
[04:15] <Mr2001> if you want to believe in free energy and levitation and bigfoot, be my guest.
[04:16] <BeGodlike> they have nothing to do with eachother
[04:16] <BeGodlike> just because on that ONE page they happen to be ON the same page
[04:16] <Mr2001> that isn't lockheed-martin the aerospace company, that's two people named lockhead and martin.
[04:16] <fungus> Mr2001: Are you familiar with a Tesla device?
[04:16] <BeGodlike> there are 10 other pages that do not mention big foot or wutever
[04:16] <Mr2001> fungus: more or less.
[04:16] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: if it really works, how come nobody is using it?
[04:16] <BeGodlike> unless you've read more about this device then i have, which i doubt, then i suggest you dont argue over it
[04:16] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: I know science. apparently you don't.
[04:17] <fungus> I've met a guy who built his own tesla devices and witnessed these phenoms.
[04:17] <Mr2001> fungus: a block of wood stuck into a ball of metal?
[04:18] <fungus> yeah
[04:18] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: that page does try to make a connection between this magical device and bigfoot.
[04:18] <Mr2001> I suggest you read that paragraph a little more closely.
[04:19] <BeGodlike> well thats the only page that has then
[04:19] <BeGodlike> look, thats the only page you've read, isn't it?
[04:19] <Mr2001> I've looked at all three links you pasted.
[04:20] <Mr2001> again, if this magical device exists and works so well to produce results that go against well-known laws of nature, why isn't it being used? why hasn't it been mentioned in real science journals? why is it only mentioned on crackpot sites?
[04:21] <BeGodlike> However, it must be remembered that a number of well-known electrical engineering organisations have been involved. For example, McDonnell-Douglas Aerospace and the Max Planck Institute in Germany, both took many photographs, some of which appear here.
[04:21] <Mr2001> where's that from?
[04:22] <BeGodlike> http://www.nexusmagazine.com//Polter.html
[04:22] <BeGodlike> might want to read that too
[04:22] <fungus> It's not magic.
[04:22] <BeGodlike> On one video recording a 19-pound bronze cylinder is seen to rise majestically into the air, at a distance of 80 feet from the centre of the device, but, incredibly, Hutchison tells us:
[04:22] <BeGodlike> "The source power was 110 volts AC. One side of the AC line had a power factor capacitor (60 cycles, 250 volts) and a 100-amp current limiter."
[04:23] <BeGodlike> On another occasion, when Hutchison's layout of apparatus and equipment was reproduced by an electrical engineering company interested in this device, he explained:
[04:23] <BeGodlike> "All components are powered from a single 15-amp, 110-volt, 60-Hz supply."
[04:23] <BeGodlike>
[04:23] <BeGodlike> For example, part of the Hutchison effect literally rips half-inch- square steel bars apart and actually shreds the shattered ends (all at low power and at a distance, remember).
[04:24] <Mr2001> nexus magazine is, surprisingly enough, a crackpot rag.
[04:24] <Mr2001> THE EVIDENCE FOR ANCIENT ATOMIC WARFARE
[04:24] <Mr2001> -Part 1 , -Part 2 by David Hatcher Childress
[04:24] <fungus> I can't believe you guys.
[04:24] <Mr2001> DOES HIV CAUSE AIDS? Pt.1, Pt.2, Pt.3
[04:24] <Mr2001> by Valendar F. Turner and Andrew McIntyre
[04:24] <Mr2001> UFOs & EBEs: More Insider Evidence
[04:24] <Mr2001> by Linda Moulton Howe
[04:25] <Mr2001> URINE THERAPY:
[04:25] <Mr2001> Your Own Perfect Medicine
[04:25] <Mr2001> haha, you'll love that one.
[04:25] <BeGodlike> wtf is this?
[04:25] <Mr2001> http://www.nexusmagazine.com//urine.html
[04:25] <Mr2001> that's from nexus magazine's home page.
[04:25] <BeGodlike> this is a .txt file copied out of a book basically
[04:25] <Mr2001> This extraordinary miracle medicine that numerous doctors, researchers and hundreds of people have used for healing is human urine.
[04:26] <BeGodlike> obviously you'd rather deny and change the subject
[04:26] <Mr2001> To us, the public, urine seems like an undesirable waste product of the body, but to the medical research community and the drug industry it's been considered to be liquid gold.
[04:26] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: I'm pointing out that nexus magazine is a crackpot rag.
[04:26] <BeGodlike> did the last 3 links i gave you come from that website?
[04:26] <Mr2001> would you drink your own piss just because an "alternative science" newsletter tells you it'll cure cancer?
[04:26] <BeGodlike> and agian, that .txt file is just a mere copy from a book
[04:26] <BeGodlike> again even
[04:27] <Mr2001> why do you say it's copied from a book?
[04:27] <Mr2001> "Extracted from NEXUS Magazine, Volume 4, #1 (Dec '96 - Jan 1997)"
[04:27] <Mr2001> it's a magazine article.
[04:27] <Mr2001> ... from a crackpot rag.
[04:28] <BeGodlike> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22The+Hutchison+Effect%22&btnG=Google+Search
[04:28] <Mr2001> tell you what, I'll believe in the hutchinson effect if you drink your own urine instead of medicine.
[04:28] <BeGodlike> i've yet to see you come up with an article that actually states the whole device was a hoax
[04:29] <BeGodlike> or any real evidence besides your pointless opinions
[04:29] <Mr2001> I've yet to see you come up with an article from a respected source.
[04:29] <BeGodlike> so until you actually come up WITH SOMETHING dont bother me with your bs
[04:29] <BeGodlike> thats why i gave you fuckin google search url
[04:29] <Mr2001> I've done the search myself. nothing.
[04:30] <Mr2001> find a mention of this miracle device in science , nature .. even scientific american .
[04:30] <BeGodlike> your in total denial
[04:30] <Mr2001> here you go:
[04:30] <BeGodlike> and still have nothing
[04:30] <Mr2001> haha
[04:30] <BeGodlike> wait, here comes a post on a message board lol
[04:30] <BeGodlike> i'm sure you believe those
[04:31] <Mr2001> go watch for bigfoot, man.
[04:31] <Mr2001> http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/urine.htm
[04:31] <Mr2001> Imbibed fresh and warm, it is a living food, and a nourishing drink, that is also cleansing, as well as medicinal. Urine is anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-viral. It is used in cases of AIDS (only AIDS anti-bodies in urine); cancer; fatigue; anemia; all sorts of urinary diseases, for weight-loss, colds and flu, candida, diabetes, digestive problems, jaundice, etc.
[04:31] <Mr2001> it's on a web page, it must be true!
[04:31] <BeGodlike> ugh its documented, video taped, pictured, witnessed and been re-created
[04:32] <BeGodlike> wut more evidence do you need here?
[04:32] <Mr2001> Once you become familiar with UROPATHY and start using your urine, you will be able to fight individual diseases, prevent and reverse the conditions that make you susceptible to all types of health problems including: childhood diseases, allergies, common cold, flu, hepatitis, arthritis, hypertension, all types of infections and fevers, cancer and the opportunistic infections associated with AIDS.
[04:32] <BeGodlike> THIS HAS NOTHING TO FUCKIN DO WITH IT
[04:32] <BeGodlike> YOU EITHER HAVE A POINT, OR NOT, AND YOU HAVE NOTHING
[04:32] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: it hasn't been documented in a reliable journal. that means it hasn't been documented scientifically.
[04:32] <BeGodlike> STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT AND PROVE ME WRONG
[04:32] <Mr2001> I have as much evidence for drinking piss as you do for magical levitating machines.
[04:32] <Mr2001> more, I bet.
[04:32] <BeGodlike> this isn't magic you dumbshit
[04:33] <BeGodlike> there is a scientific explanation and its been re-created
[04:33] <BeGodlike> your so fuckin blind
[04:33] <Mr2001> what scientific explanation? those pages are full of nonsense bullshit.
[04:33] <Mr2001> talking about alternate dimensions and low frequency harmonics, etc.
[04:33] <Mr2001> and recreated where?
[04:33] <BeGodlike> you have read like 1/16th of the amount of info as i have on this subject, where the fuck do you get off?
[04:33] <Mr2001> Learn more about urine's healing properties for: Hypertension, Hepatitis, Gall Stones, Lyme Disease, Dysentery , Arthritis, and Cholera
[04:34] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: you can read all the ufo pages you want, but that isn't science.
[04:34] <Mr2001> what part of that don't you get? UFO PAGES ARE NOT SCIENCE.
[04:34] <Mr2001> "Briefly, if urine is ingested and/or rubbed into the skin, it purifies blood and tissues, provides useful nutrients and sends the body a signal about what is in or out of balance. "
[04:34] <BeGodlike> its documented, video taped, pictured, witnessed and been re-created
[04:34] Last message repeated 10 time(s).
[04:34] <BeGodlike> READ UP FOOL
[04:34] <Mr2001> ON UFO PAGES. NOT SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS.
[04:35] <BeGodlike> FIND ME *ONE* ARTICLE THAT ISN'T A MESSAGE BOARD THAT PROVES ME WRONG
[04:35] <Mr2001> like I asked before: if it really works, why aren't we using it? why hasn't it been mentioned in a real journal, only on sites that just happen to also talk about bigfoot and ufos?
[04:35] <BeGodlike> THEN I'LL EVEN *THINK* ABOUT CONSIDERING YOUR OPINION
[04:35] <Mr2001> like I asked before: if it really works, why aren't we using it? why hasn't it been mentioned in a real journal, only on sites that just happen to also talk about bigfoot and ufos?
[04:36] <BeGodlike> because much like hte rest of the world they are in denial just like you
[04:36] <Mr2001> haha
[04:36] <BeGodlike> and if everyone was just like you, 100% sure they would'nt be using the deviced
[04:36] <fungus> Tesla devices aren't safe.
[04:36] <BeGodlike> device even
[04:36] <Mr2001> whatever, man.
[04:36] <Mr2001> go ahead and believe in your ufos and conspiracies.
[04:37] <fungus> Conspiracies exist.
[04:37] <Mr2001> I have more evidence for drinking piss than you do for this device.
[04:37] <fungus> Levitation is used on bullet trains.
[04:37] Topic changed on #Spokane by Mr2001!mr2001@sdn-ar-001waspokP151.dialsprint.net: Newsflash: BeGodlike disproves science!
[04:37] Topic changed on #Spokane by BeGodlike!~g0dlike@fdslppp192.spkn.uswest.net:
[04:37] <BeGodlike> you have 0 evidence that proves me wrong
[04:37] <BeGodlike> so keep your worthless opinion to yourself
[04:37] <Mr2001> you have 0 evidence that proves you right.
[04:38] <BeGodlike> actually i have like 10 pages of it
[04:38] <Mr2001> so keep your ufo bigfoot stories to yourself.
[04:38] <Mr2001> do you not understand that that isn't evidence?
[04:38] <fungus> Do you deny that electrostatic energy exists?
[04:38] <Mr2001> fungus: that's vastly different.
[04:38] <BeGodlike> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22The+Hutchison+Effect%22&btnG=Google+Search
[04:40] Last message repeated 6 time(s).
[04:40] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: been there.
[04:40] <BeGodlike> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22The+Hutchison+Effect%22&btnG=Google+Search
[04:40] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[04:40] <Mr2001> find something real.
[04:40] <BeGodlike> READ IT
[04:40] <Mr2001> uh huh.
[04:40] <Mr2001> find something real.
[04:40] <BeGodlike> why do people argue about things they've barely even read a paragraph about?
[04:40] <Mr2001> "In Egypt, rescue workers found a 37-year-old man alive in earthquake rubble. He survived almost 82 hours by drinking his own urine. His wife, daughter and mother would not and they died."
[04:40] <Mr2001> "
[04:40] <BeGodlike> i mean, fuckin christ, i can't imagine being so ignorant
[04:40] <Mr2001> I've read every link you've pasted.
[04:40] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: I know.. does it hurt?
[04:40] <fungus> I don't see a vast difference.. haha
[04:40] <Mr2001> why do you want to believe in ufo bullshit so much?
[04:40] <BeGodlike> the links i posted are like again for the 2nd time, 1/16th of what i've read, and whats avaliable to read
[04:40] <BeGodlike> THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH UFO'S
[04:40] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: so post something better.
[04:40] <Mr2001> if you have a link that really has proof, I'll read it.
[04:40] <Mr2001> but you haven't given me anything real yet.
[04:40] <BeGodlike> no, you are convinced that it doesn't work right off the bat
[04:40] <BeGodlike> thats the first sign of total ignorance
[04:40] <BeGodlike> before you even read *1* link of mine
[04:40] <BeGodlike> you were like OH THATS BULLSHIT
[04:40] <BeGodlike> I DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT IT
[04:40] <BeGodlike> BUT THATS BULLSHIT
[04:41] <BeGodlike> your on ignore
[04:41] <Mr2001> uh, I know science. I know there's a lot of bullshit out there. I know a lot of that bullshit is levitation.
[04:41] <BeGodlike> go whine to some one else about your ignorance
[04:41] <BeGodlike> until then
[04:41] <BeGodlike> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22The+Hutchison+Effect%22&btnG=Google+Search
[04:41] Topic changed on #Spokane by Mr2001!mr2001@sdn-ar-001waspokP151.dialsprint.net: Aliens give BeGodlike the secret of eternal life: URINE!
[04:41] Topic changed on #Spokane by BeGodlike!~g0dlike@fdslppp192.spkn.uswest.net: Aliens give mr2001 the secret of eternal life: URINE!
[04:42] <fungus> You can levitate things very easily using electrostatic and magnetic energies.
[04:42] <BeGodlike> fungus, dont even bother explaining it to him
[04:42] <Mr2001> fungus: again, that's different.
[04:42] <BeGodlike> he obviously made up his mind far before we talked about it
[04:42] <fungus> What's different?
[04:42] <Mr2001> a magnet will not teleport a block of wood into a block of metal.
[04:42] <BeGodlike> no shit
[04:42] Topic changed on #Spokane by Mr2001!mr2001@sdn-ar-001waspokP151.dialsprint.net: Aliens give BeGodlike the secret of eternal life: URINE!
[04:43] Topic changed on #Spokane by BeGodlike!~g0dlike@fdslppp192.spkn.uswest.net:
[04:43] <BeGodlike> look, i'm saying prove me wrong
[04:43] <BeGodlike> prove the 100 links on google i just posted wrong
[04:43] Topic changed on #Spokane by Mr2001!mr2001@sdn-ar-001waspokP151.dialsprint.net: BeGodlike believes this: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/886
[04:43] <BeGodlike> find me an article, that explains how i'm wrong
[04:43] <fungus> I think that it is very possible that electrostatic energy could fuse two dissimilar substances.
[04:43] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.
[04:43] Topic changed on #Spokane by BeGodlike!~g0dlike@fdslppp192.spkn.uswest.net:
[04:44] <Mr2001> what, are you embarrassed that you believe in ufo bullshit?
[04:44] <BeGodlike> it is very possible, and i believe its been done, i mean fuck theres pictures of it
[04:44] <BeGodlike> and video
[04:44] <BeGodlike> and people who've watched it
[04:44] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: there's one video. there are a handful of pictures.
[04:44] <BeGodlike> and huge companies that have dumped money into proving it
[04:44] <Mr2001> there's more evidence for bigfoot.
[04:44] <Mr2001> huge companies dumping money into it? url, please.
[04:44] <fungus> I want to see a pic!
[04:44] <BeGodlike> hold on
[04:45] Topic changed on #Spokane by Mr2001!mr2001@sdn-ar-001waspokP151.dialsprint.net: BeGodlike believes this: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/886
[04:45] <BeGodlike> i had it
[04:45] <BeGodlike> that url is fuckin broke you fuckin idiot and knock it off
[04:45] <Mr2001> hmm.
[04:45] Topic changed on #Spokane by BeGodlike!~g0dlike@fdslppp192.spkn.uswest.net:
[04:45] Topic changed on #Spokane by Mr2001!mr2001@sdn-ar-001waspokP151.dialsprint.net: BeGodlike believes http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/HEff
[04:45] <Mr2001> there we go.
[04:45] Topic changed on #Spokane by BeGodlike!~g0dlike@fdslppp192.spkn.uswest.net: .
[04:45] <BeGodlike> http://paranormal.about.com/science/paranormal/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.debshome.com%2FArtificial_Phenomena.html
[04:46] <BeGodlike> gotta scroll down the page about halfway
[04:46] <Mr2001> fungus: read the second paragraph under "A description of the Hutchinson device".
[04:47] <BeGodlike> people who are interested in these types of things are *very* commonly interested in UFO's and such so NOT AT ALL was i suprised to see both on the same page, but apparently to some people, IT BLOWS THERE MINDS
[04:47] <BeGodlike> so bad, that they DON'T BELIEVE IT, BECAUSE ITS ON THE SAME PAGE
[04:47] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: I'm not at all surprised that it's linked from ufo pages.
[04:47] <BeGodlike> and got knows mirrors of documents, those are all fake too
[04:47] <Mr2001> not one bit.
[04:47] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: do you have evidence to disprove urine therapy?
[04:47] <Mr2001> why are you so closed-minded when it comes to drinking piss, but you'll believe in any levitating machine that has a handful of photos on ufo pages?
[04:47] <fungus> huh?
[04:47] <fungus> I missed it.
[04:47] <Mr2001> I mean, it cures cancer! it says so on a web page!
[04:47] <Mr2001> you didn't even read the page, I bet.
[04:48] <BeGodlike> several times in several articles i've read about this it specificly mentions the rubber spoon effect from the device, thats in the pictures and video
[04:48] <BeGodlike> http://paranormal.about.com/science/paranormal/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.debshome.com%2FArtificial_Phenomena.html
[04:48] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: do you understand the difference between a scientific article and a story on a web page?
[04:48] <fungus> ok
[04:48] <Mr2001> do you understand the difference between a scientific journal and something like "nexus magazine"?
[04:48] <Mr2001> if something important and new is discovered, it will be reported in a scientific journal.
[04:49] <Mr2001> I'm sure you've noticed you aren't going to convince me. you might convince some people who don't know anything about science.
[04:49] <Mr2001> but you won't convince anyone who knows anything about the way things really work.
[04:52] <Mr2001> http://www.auto-urine.com/english.htm
[04:54] <Mr2001> "All kinds of throat inflammation can be helped by gargling with urine to which a bit of saffron has been added" and "drinking one ounce of urine . . . is more beneficial to the average person than a fully staffed multi-billion dollar medical center."
[04:54] <fungus> Credible sources profit from such information becoming public.
[04:55] <Mr2001> fungus: we would all profit from something amazing and revolutionary becoming public.
[04:56] <fungus> Mr2001: Tell that to OPEC.
[04:56] <fungus> or how ever you spell it.
[04:56] <BeGodlike> @ 4am i posted a link, at 4:03 mr2001 said it was bullshit, not having any previous knowledge of this device, or anything
[04:57] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: you still haven't disproved urine therapy.
[04:57] <BeGodlike> that clearly, and so obviosly states, that mr2 had his mind made up before hand,
[04:57] <BeGodlike> its not even worth him tryin to prove me wrong
[04:57] <Mr2001> I had previous knowledge of science and logic. you obviously didn't.
[04:57] <fungus> I have no reason to disprove Urine Therape.
[04:57] <fungus> I think I'm going to start drinking urine.
[04:57] <BeGodlike> i know, maybe urin does cure people
[04:57] Topic changed on #Spokane by Mr2001!mr2001@sdn-ar-001waspokP151.dialsprint.net: <fungus> I think I'm going to start drinking urine.
[04:58] <Mr2001> now that's topic material. ;)
[04:58] <fungus> Mr2001: If you think that you have hurt my feelings, you are dead wrong.
[04:58] <Mr2001> I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings.
[04:58] <Mr2001> I'm just making for good irc.
[04:58] <fungus> It is public knowledge that I have drank my own urine.
[04:58] <BeGodlike> people swore for fuckin how long that acupuncture was bullshit?
[04:59] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: have you proved acupuncture now too?
[04:59] <Mr2001> you know what.. I'm gonna let you in on a secret.
[04:59] <Mr2001> this will work for you.
[04:59] <fungus> People also swore that breaking the sound berrier would cause the end of the world as we know it.
[04:59] <Mr2001> if you can prove that the device works, you can make one million dollars from james randi.
[05:00] <Mr2001> I'm sure you know who he is.
[05:00] <BeGodlike> dumb assumptions, by dumb close minded people
[05:00] <Mr2001> oh, you don't?
[05:00] <fungus> I remember when people thought that non-white people were inferior.
[05:01] <fungus> Oh yeah, some still do.
[05:01] <BeGodlike> theres decades of bullshit like that
[05:01] <BeGodlike> just even recently
[05:01] <Mr2001> million dollar challenge: http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
[05:01] <BeGodlike> within the 1900's
[05:01] <Mr2001> "At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event."
[05:02] <Mr2001> you better contact that hutchinson guy, he could be rich!
[05:03] <Mr2001> the rules are all at http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html.. feel free to read them, I'm sure you won't find them unreasonable.
[05:03] <fungus> I really don't think that this "effect" is paranormal, supernatural, or occult power.
[05:04] <Mr2001> a lot of those pages describe it as paranormal.
[05:04] <Mr2001> paranormal : not scientifically explainable
[05:04] <Mr2001> you may say it's scientifically explainable, but I bet randi wouldn't. his disbelief could earn you one million dollars.
[05:05] <BeGodlike> the only reason you find it classified as "paranormal" in those websites is because dumbasses for years refused to believe it
[05:05] <Mr2001> I think they still don't believe it.
[05:05] <BeGodlike> and its like DUH of course UFO's and etc.. are going to be on the same web page
[05:05] <BeGodlike> i thought that went w/out saying but apparenlty thats only clear to some people
[05:05] <fungus> I think that if you can't scientifically explain it, than it will automatically fail the "proper observation conditions".
[05:05] <Mr2001> do you think james randi would call it paranormal, or do you think he'd say "everyone knows about that and believes it, don't waste my time"?
[05:05] <Mr2001> fungus: nope.
[05:07] <fungus> So do you think that "credible sources" have tried to re-create this effect already and failed?
[05:07] <Mr2001> I honestly don't know.
[05:07] <Mr2001> I couldn't find any mention of it whatsoever in a credible journal, positive or negative.
[05:08] <fungus> Maybe credible sources aren't aware that such an effect is under scrouteney.
[05:08] <BeGodlike> Two important aspects of the Hutchison Effect have been
[05:08] <BeGodlike> confirmed independently by scientific researchers Richard Hull
[05:08] <BeGodlike> and Ken Shoulders.
[05:08] <fungus> SP
[05:08] <Mr2001> fungus: that's a possibility.
[05:08] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: where's that from?
[05:09] <Mr2001> and what are those guys' credentials?
[05:09] <BeGodlike> Physicist Ken Shoulders, who has an excellent reputation
[05:09] <BeGodlike> as a theoretician and experimenter, has successfully replicated
[05:09] <BeGodlike> the anomalous localized heating effects of the Hutchison Effect.
[05:10] <Mr2001> where does he work?
[05:10] <Mr2001> I searched for his name and turned up only 'free energy' sites.
[05:10] <fungus> What makes you think that energy isn't free?
[05:11] <Mr2001> there are a few well-known laws of thermodynamics.
[05:11] <Mr2001> if you can come up with something that breaks the laws of thermodynamics, you'd certainly get a nobel prize.
[05:12] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: I'm not seeing any credentials.
[05:12] <fungus> You guys will go on forever.
[05:12] <Mr2001> that site says he has an excellent reputation. but I don't see where he works, what degrees he holds, what he's published...
[05:13] <fungus> I don't even belive in credibility.
[05:13] <fungus> No one is credible to me.
[05:13] <Mr2001> I bet that makes life easier. ;)
[05:13] <Mr2001> aha.
[05:13] <Mr2001> jed seems to believe the opposite.
[05:13] <fungus> I neither believe nor disbelieve things based on hear-say.
[05:13] <BeGodlike> oh btw
[05:13] <BeGodlike> if you think Ken Shoulders is also made up bullshit
[05:13] <BeGodlike> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22Ken+Shoulders%22
[05:14] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: been there.
[05:14] <BeGodlike> theres 168 links talking about his whole life
[05:14] <Mr2001> I do know how to use google.
[05:14] <Mr2001> yeah, but they're all on free energy or ufo sites.
[05:14] <fungus> I can't say it's bullshit, but also can't say it's true untill I am witness myself.
[05:14] <Mr2001> one site claims he worked at mit and stanford. perhaps that will turn up something.
[05:15] <Mr2001> hmm.. no hits for ken shoulders at either mit.edu or stanford.edu.
[05:15] <Mr2001> not very promising.
[05:16] <fungus> fuck
[05:17] <fungus> I don't think anyone will ever learn anything about this if they all act like you do.
[05:17] <BeGodlike> these scientists, who re-created this and proved it, *are* credible people
[05:17] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: why should I believe that ken shoulders is credible?
[05:18] <Mr2001> because you say so? because a ufo page says so?
[05:19] <Mr2001> again, do you realize the difference between a real science journal and something like 'nexus magazine' or 'infinite energy review'?
[05:19] <BeGodlike> so i guess in order to prove me wrong, you'd also be proving several scientists wrong, good luck
[05:20] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: care to answer what I just asked?
[05:20] <Mr2001> I mean, you can stick your fingers in your ears and sing, if you'd rather do that.
[05:20] <Mr2001> as long as I get to shout "na na na you're in denial!" like you've been doing.
[05:21] <Mr2001> hmm, it's 8:30 at mit, I wonder if I could call and ask about ken shoulders. ;)
[05:21] fung (fungus@1Cust192.tnt1.spokane2.wa.da.uu.net) joined #Spokane.
[05:21] <God> [fung] BOMB!
[05:21] <fung> fuck
[05:21] <fung> http://www.altenergy.org/4/cofe/cofe.html
[05:21] #spokane: mode change '+v fung' by God!~Santis@fdslppp192.spkn.uswest.net
[05:21] <fung> http://www.altenergy.org/4/cofe/cofe.html
[05:22] <fung> fuck
[05:22] <fung> IS that a UFO site?
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[05:22] <Mr2001> 'alternative energy institute' does sound like a ufo site.
[05:22] <Mr2001> well, not ufos per se, but you know what I mean.
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[05:27] <BeGodlike> . Hutchison even performed his experiments for scientists from Los Alamos Laboratory. The effect has been videotaped many times and even broadcast on network television
[05:28] fungus (fungus@1Cust207.tnt1.spokane2.wa.da.uu.net) joined #Spokane.
[05:28] <Mr2001> ok, so if real scientists have seen it, why haven't they published anything about it?
[05:28] <Mr2001> again, why hasn't anyone in the real scientific community mentioned it?
[05:28] <fungus> It's OPEC.
[05:28] <Mr2001> why hasn't he won a nobel prize, or a million bucks?
[05:29] <Mr2001> opec is killing everyone who sees it? or intercepting their mail?
[05:29] <Mr2001> why would opec care about a levitating device that melts metal and wood together?
[05:30] <fungus> heh
[05:30] <fungus> Do you not believe that opec is profiting from alt energy sources being publicised?
[05:31] <Mr2001> opec isn't powerful enough to control the entire worldwide scientific community.
[05:31] <fungus> Also, do you know the profound impact that a cheap energy source would have on the earth?
[05:31] <Mr2001> now *martians*.. I bet they're the ones responsible.
[05:32] <Mr2001> nuclear energy is cheap.
[05:32] <fungus> It's not safe.
[05:32] <fungus> It's not clean.
[05:32] <Mr2001> these days it is.
[05:32] <Mr2001> the reason it isn't used more often is that people are afraid of it.
[05:33] <fungus> Cheap energy would cause more people to buy more cars causing more people to be enraged on the road.
[05:33] <Mr2001> opec doesn't even control our oil supply.
[05:34] <fungus> That doesn't change the demand for oil.
[05:34] <fungus> If energy got cheaper, the world would populate even faster.
[05:34] <Mr2001> why?
[05:35] <fungus> Why what?
[05:35] <Mr2001> btw, we only import 57% of our oil, and less than half of that is from opec.
[05:35] <Mr2001> why would the world populate faster with cheaper energy?
[05:36] <fungus> It would cost less to feed your wants.
[05:36] <Mr2001> you think people decide not to have kids because the heating bill is too high?
[05:37] <Mr2001> Overall, the top suppliers of oil to the United States during 2000 were Canada (1.69 MMBD), Saudi Arabia (1.57 MMBD), Venezuela (1.52 MMBD), and Mexico (1.36 MMBD).
[05:37] <fungus> yeah.
[05:37] <fungus> I don't see your point.
[05:37] <Mr2001> canada, venezuela, and mexico are not opec nations.
[05:37] <fungus> People don't decide to have kids if they can't even have sex.
[05:38] <Mr2001> I also don't see what this has to do with why the 'hutchinson effect' hasn't been mentioned in credible journals.
[05:38] <fungus> Some people see the effect as an alternate source of energy.
[05:39] <Mr2001> actually, venezuela is a member of opec.
[05:39] <fungus> But others see alternate sources of energy as a threat to the survival of humans.
[05:39] <Mr2001> but we already have all the energy we need.
[05:39] <Mr2001> nuclear power works and it's cheap.
[05:40] <fungus> The law of conservation of energy dictates that energy can neither be gained nore lost.
[05:41] <Mr2001> yes.
[05:41] <Mr2001> very good. ;)
[05:41] <fungus> Most regular people don't understand that.
[05:41] <Mr2001> true.
[05:41] <Mr2001> that's why so many people believe in 'free energy'.
[05:41] <fungus> So the demand of energy is high.
[05:42] <Mr2001> the laws of thermodynamics also dictate that energy will move from more useful forms to less useful forms.
[05:42] <fungus> That law, could also make "free energy" more believeable.
[05:42] <Mr2001> how?
[05:42] <BeGodlike> http://www.e-webpagedesignsolutions.com/hutchisoneffect.html
[05:42] <BeGodlike> thats a good web page
[05:42] <fungus> Not understanding the laws of thermodynamics.
[05:42] <BeGodlike> better then most i've found on the subject
[05:43] <fungus> That's the same essay.
[05:44] <Mr2001> ooh, quicktime 3d. that brings back memories. ;)
[05:44] <BeGodlike> better pictures though
[05:45] <fungus> Mr2001: I'm not familiar with the laws of thermodynamics. I wish I was.
[05:45] <Mr2001> fungus: aha.
[05:46] <fungus> 55 meth busts this year in spokane county alone.
[05:47] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: van der waals forces don't mean what that page thinks they mean.
[05:47] <Mr2001> http://antoine.fsu.umd.edu/chem/senese/101/liquids/faq/h-bonding-vs-london-forces.shtml
[05:48] <Mr2001> fungus:
[05:48] <Mr2001> The first law of thermodynamics says that the total quantity of energy in the universe remains constant. This is the principle of the conservation of energy. The second law of thermodynamics states that the quality of this energy is degraded irreversibly. This is the principle of the degradation of energy.
[05:48] <Mr2001> In fact physical, chemical, and electrical energy can be completely changed into heat. But the reverse (heat into physical energy, for example) cannot be fully accomplished without outside help or without an inevitable loss of energy in the form of irretrievable heat. This does not mean that the energy is destroyed; it means that it becomes unavailable for producing work.
[05:48] <BeGodlike> There was a raid in March 2000, on an excuse of old antique fire arms. Government agents took photographs of the new lab equipment. After the successful demonstration in 1999 of the HEffect for Fox TV
[05:49] <Mr2001> e.g., a car engine produces a huge amount of waste heat, around 50%.. but due to the laws of thermodynamics, it can never be entirely reclaimed.
[05:49] <fungus> I understand.
[05:49] <fungus> Are those the only laws of thermodynamics?
[05:50] <Mr2001> I think there's another.
[05:50] <BeGodlike> i think its pretty clear that this isn't made up
[05:50] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: find a mention in a respectable journal.
[05:51] <BeGodlike> http://www.e-webpagedesignsolutions.com/contraversey.html
[05:51] <Mr2001> Third Law
[05:51] <Mr2001> By no finite series of processes is the absolute zero attainable.
[05:51] <BeGodlike> 1985 Hutchison project funded again by Washington D.C., by McDonnel Douglas. A two day intensive controlled labratory tests were done during this time and was not classified. Videos exist and full report are available
[05:51] <fungus> ahh
[05:52] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: so I'm sure mcdonnel-douglas and fox have detailed reports about the device, right?
[05:52] <BeGodlike> Dr. John Hutchison gave two lectures and won an award on his video and metal demonstrations
[05:53] <fungus> Thanks Mr2001.
[05:53] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: are you going to admit that it's never been mentioned by a credible source, or just ignore it?
[05:54] <fungus> I don't think any source is credible enough.
[05:54] <fungus> heh
[05:54] <Mr2001> nah, there are plenty of sources I'd consider credible.
[05:55] <BeGodlike> high voltage and radio frequencey mixed together to form a vortex (thats the best word i can use to give the best visualization for a person not familiar with this stuff) to make objects levitate in his living room. These objects range from wood to metal, from yogurt to Cannon Balls. Basically, I tell them, I'm making a film about a scientist who is revealing the secrets of electromagnetic anti-gravity propulsion technology to the general pu
[05:56] <fungus> So does thermodynamics suggest that all energy will become un-useable someday?
[05:56] <Mr2001> es.
[05:56] <Mr2001> yes
[05:56] <Mr2001> known as 'heat death'.
[05:57] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: that doesn't make sense.
[05:57] <Mr2001> "The levitation of heavy objects by the Hutchison Effect is not---repeat not---the result of simple electrostatic or electromagnetic levitation. Claims that these forces alone can explain the phenomenon are patently ridiculous"
[05:57] <Mr2001> that suggests the device is paranormal.. better let him know about that million dollars!
[05:58] <Mr2001> be sure to let him know it's a million US dollars, too. that would buy a lot of kraft dinner and plaid shirts.
[05:58] <fungus> I would say that they are a result of electromagnetic or electrostatic levitation.
[05:58] <fungus> haha
[05:58] <BeGodlike> There have been 750 demonstrations of the Hutchison Effect to date. The Hutchison Effect has been tested in various countries around the world
[05:58] <fungus> Kraft dinner.
[05:58] <Mr2001> fungus: well, apparently mr. hutchinson disagrees. ;)
[05:58] <BeGodlike> Concept tested and proved in 1984 under controlled laboratory conditions (refer to 1994 Historical Context)
[05:58] <BeGodlike> A wealth of witnesses, documents, samples, papers, Lab tests, X-ray defraction, SEMS, fluorescence tests, Los Alamos Navy lab tests, and other USA Universities and National Labs.
[05:59] <BeGodlike> Observers include BC Hydro, British Columbia Institute of Technology, University of Toronto, Los Alamos, Pharos Technologies, Boeing Aerospace, McDonald Douglas, Max Planeck, Fraune Houfer, Berlin University (B.A.M Germany), Dr. Amon, Japan, Kyoto Institutes of Technology, England's Alfred Budden, and so on.
[05:59] <BeGodlike> Canadian Government tests on 8-mm film showing invisible metal samples. Calculations on levitation's, Boeing Aerospace. 700 pounds of metal samples 100 pounds tested in the USA, Canada, Germany, Austria, Greece, England, Japan, France and so on.
[05:59] <Mr2001> BeGodlike: I'm putting you on ignore, ok? change the topic when you have a credible source.
[05:59] <fungus> Kraft dinner.
[05:59] <Mr2001> "It is surmised by some researchers that what Hutchison has done is tap into the Zero Point Energy. This energy gets its name from the fact that it is evidenced by oscillations at zero degrees Kelvin, where supposedly all activity in an atom ceases."
[06:00] <Mr2001> the 3rd law of thermodynamics states that it's impossible to actually attain zero kelvins (absolute zero).. so he could win a nobel prize, too.
[06:00] <BeGodlike> http://www.e-webpagedesignsolutions.com/default.htm
[06:01] <BeGodlike> click on his bio link thats where some info is
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